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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007 Boundary Concern Documents . --kii,' BDM CONSULTING ENGINEERS AND SURVEYORS,PLC , gors. �,4t., 7,041. • 7,4 Februa 7 t a •This oritati" A‘ 4 . Marlys Foley 15433 57th Street North ...aisussunirosollows"..1111.1111.1.....m Oak Park Heights4.1)%a044 Re: Boundary Concern Dear Marlys: °I114° There exists a boundary concern for your property located in the plat of Beach's Addition. It is my understanding that the plat of Beaches Addition was filed in 1838 and never monumented or had the iron pipes set at the lot and block corners. In 1961, the City of Oak Park Heights hired a surveyor by the name of H.T. Purtell to survey the plat of Beaches Addition and set iron monuments at the block corners. He filed with the City of Oak Park Heights a"Situation Survey for Village of Oak Park Heights" showing the work he had performed. This information was provided to me about a week ago from Barry Stack. The boundary concern developed from the way H.T. Purtell monumented the blocks in the plat of Beaches Addition and other surveyors who disagreed with H.T. Purtell's survey method. Barry Stack has advised me that he and other surveyors have ignored the monumentation set in 1961 by H.T. Purtell and recreated the location of Lots and Blocks in the plat of Beaches Addition by taking the dimension on the plat of Beaches Addition and applying them to the current Washington County Subdivision of Section 3, Township 29, Range 20. I do not know how long this practice of setting Lot and Block corners has been going on. I do know that the Block corners were first set by H.T. Purtell in 1961 and have existed for over 40 years. H.T. Purtell's Block corners have been accepted by several property owners and surveyors. Marlys, as you are aware this all came about because your adjoiner to the west would like to subdivide their property. BDM Consulting Engineers and Surveyors used the existing monumentation. The existing monumentation reflects the monumentation set by H.T. Purtell in 1961. The adjoiner's surveyor is Barry Stack. Barry Stack has his method and will not use the monumentation set by H.T. Purtell. It is my belief that you cannot ignore the monumentation set over 40 years and the possessor rights that have developed over that time. However, I am not an attorney and you may need to contact one. The City of Oak Park Heights could correct the boundary concern with their authority under state statutes for a City boundary commission plat. If the City does not act, it would be prudent to contact an attorney and proceed with a quiet title action or register the property. I would also suggest that you talk to the City Administrator of the City of Oak Park Heights for their opinion on how the City may act regarding the boundary concern and the proposed subdivision of your adjoiner. I am also going to contact Ed Otto the President of the Minnesota Society of Professional Surveyors about a committee that is made up of our peers that review boundary concerns. I also have mentioned this•to Barry Stack as a way to resolve this concern. The M.S.P.S. committee's recommendation are nonbinding. If you have any other question or concerns, please feel free to call. I will keep you posted on any new developments. DRAKE BUILDING,60 PLATO BOULEVARD EAST,SUITE 140,ST.PAUL,MN 55107 • i Sincerely, 4 Dennis M. Honsa, L.S. Vice President BDM Consulting Engineers and Surveyors Cc: Barry Stack, Stack Land Surveying Eric Johnson, City Administrator Ed Otto, President M.S.P.S. Page 1 STACK LAND SURVEYING 9090 North Fairy Falls Road Stillwater, MN 55082 (651) 439-5630 February 15, 2007 Pastor Huebscher 12525 75th Street North Stillwater, MN 55082 re: Block 5, Beach's Add., Wash. County, Minnesota, and Purtell's Situation Survey, Oak Park Hts., MN. Dear Pastor, I enclose, for your records, a copy of a letter I received in the mail yesterday from Dennis Honsa, Land Surveyor. Please be advised of the following. I feel his letter misstates and minimizes the overall scope and impact of the Purtell Situation Survey(TPSS). TPSS also includes 3 other recorded subdivisions as well as Beach's Add. They all should be addressed at the same time. The other plats are: Oak Park Add., Crofut and Beach's Add. and Esterbrook and Daggetts Addition. The latter 2 plats are easterly of platted Main Street, a.k.a. CSAH 21, and are not discussed in detail hereon. In addition, I also feel that Mr. Honsa does not correctly layout my reasons and the survey procedures I believe should be employed to survey Block 5, Beach's Add., and split up your lots. Also be advised that I will copy Mr. Honsa and the City of Oak Park Heights with this letter. I'm afraid this letter will be quite lengthy because a lot of information is involved. I shall attempt to be as brief as possible with a historical progression of events. Oak Park Add. was filed for record 13th of May 1857, Territory of Minnesota. This plat is located, by description, on that part of the NE 1/4 of the NW 1/4 of Sec. 3, T29N, R20W, Wash. Co., Minn., lying westerly of platted Main Street. "1/8th" corners (a.k.a. 40 corners) are clearly designated on the plat along the southerly lines thereof as the south boundary of the plat. The plat includes public street dedication: * Re-tracement Method 1 Used (*RM 1): The location of the platted Blocks and Streets in this plat were proportioned using plat dimensions verses the section subdivision dimensions for that part of the NE 1/4 of the NW 1/4 lying westerly of platted Main Street.. Beach's Add. adjoins Oak Park to the south and was filed for record April 7th, 1858, Territory of Minnesota. This plat is located, by description, "on the northeast corner of the SE 1/4 of the NW 1/4". The corresponding "1/8th" corner is clearly designated on the plat as being the NE corner of the plat. The northerly and easterly lines of the plat are apparently intended to be, respectively, the northerly and easterly lines of said SE 1/4 of the NW 1/4. Only a part of said SE 1/4 of the NW 1/4 was platted, being the NE'ly portion. Streets in this plat generally line up with platted streets to the north in Oak Park. This plat also includes public street dedication: (continued on next page) Page 2 **Re-tracement Method 2 Used (**RM 2): The location of the platted Blocks and Streets in this plat are to be laid off parallel with and record dimensions westerly and southerly of the easterly and northerly lines of said SE 1/4 of the NW 1/4. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, such as verifiable original plat monuments, I agree with Mr. Honsa that the plat of Beach's Add. was probably never monumented. I also feel that this is also the case with Oak Park Add. In 1917 and 1921 the County Surveyor, Lewis W. Clark, did survey work in the NE 1/4 of said Sec. 3, as evidenced by Survey No. 361, on file in the office of the County Surveyor of Washington County. A copy of my marked up file copy is enclosed for your records. A stone monument is shown on this survey at the N 1/4 corner of said Sec. 3, also being the NE corner of the NE 1/4 of the NW 1/4 of said Sec. 3. Mr. Clark shows survey data and a distance of 1193.78 feet (2007 measured value 1193.48 feet) southerly along the N-S 1/4 sec. line to the SE corner of said NE 1/4 of the NW 1/4 and identifies on the survey as an "iron pipe - 1/4 1/4 corner". This iron is presently gone due to high line tower construction done in the late 1960's. Additional survey data is also shown on Survey No. 361, southerly to the Center of Section 3. Washington County has, I believe, a section survey report that refers to Survey No. 361 as controlling the restoration and location of said SE corner of the NE 1/4 of NW 1/4. In the Fall of 1960 and spring of 1961 the City of Oak Park Heights retained the services of H. T. Purtell, Land Surveyor, to survey streets locations in the City to aid in the placement of street and utility improvements. The result of this effort is a drawing captioned "SITUATION SURVEY for VILLAGE OF OAK PARK HEIGHTS", (TPSS referred to before). A copy of this drawing can be obtained from the Washington County Surveyors Office. Mr. Purtell passed away in 1963 and as of this date I have been unable to locate or view his records. The drawing itself bears no certification or signature by Mr. Purtell as to his work, nor does appear thereon any Municipal, County, State or Court endorsements. An examination of this drawing also reveals that Mr. Purtell apparently found a total of 3 iron monuments and the N 1/4 corner monument aforesaid, on which he based his work in Oak Park Add. and Beach's Add. I am reasonably sure that the iron he shows as found at the NE corner of Beach's Add. is the iron pipe shown as the "1/4 1/4 cor." on Survey No. 361 aforesaid. Monuments set on TPSS located westerly of this iron pipe position, project to within 0.1'+- N-S of this position and hit plat record dimensions 1.2'+-. As near as I can figure out Mr. Purtell may have tried to right angle off the N-S 1/4 Line and apparently went record distances to the west and set re-rods at what he thought were the block corners, shown as the open circles on his drawing. With the exception of the found iron at the NE corner of Beach's Add. it appears he found no other iron pipes in Beach's Add. at all. Unfortunately, TPSS shows no bearings, angles or any other section subdivision data shown thereon that would aid in figuring how he came up with the location of the line between Oak Park and Beach's Add. In October of 1980 Lot Surveys Company did a Boundary and Topography Survey in part of Block 11, Oak Park. The final issue of this survey utilized * RM 1 used. (continued on next page) Page 3 In January 1984 Stack Land Surveying did a boundary survey in Part of Block 11, Oak Park. *RM 1 used. See copy enclosed. This survey is filed at the County Surveyors office. In January 1985 Lake Elmo Land Surveyors did a boundary survey in part of Block 15, Oak Park. *RM 1 used . In February 1993 Bruce A Folz&Assoc. did a boundary survey in part of Blocks 9, 10, 13 and 14, Oak Park. *RM 1 used. In February 1997 Stack Land Surveying did a boundary survey in part of Block 15, Oak Park. *RM 1 used. This survey is filed at the County Surveyors Office. In June 2004 Cornerstone Land Surveying did a boundary survey in part of Block 6, Oak Park. *RM 1 used. In September 2006 Comstock and Davis did a boundary survey in part of Block 8, Oak Park, *RM 1 used. Old houses that are shown as encroached on the w'ly line of Block 8 on TPSS are just on line or clear of the Block line utilizing Re-tracement Method 1. The purpose of this listing of surveys I am aware of, is to illustrate that TPSS has been rejected as a valid retracement of Oak Park Add for about 26 years+-. I'm also aware that other surveyors have come into town and done surveys based on TPSS without prudent research at the county surveyors office. Both of my surveys and TPSS are public record at the courthouse and have been for years. It is my business policy to share my information and records with any surveyor who asks for them when they do work in this area. I have also supplied my data to the Wash. Co. Surveyors Office. Last week I requested that they review my file and retracement methods I'm using for the plats of Oak Park and Beach's Add. Since that time I had a call from the Wash. Co. Surveyors office and was told that they preliminarily agree with these methods, subject to review by the County Attorney. If these methods are correct, any Subdivision Plats or Title Registration applications that came to the County for review could be rejected if based on monuments set in TPSS. As an aside, last fall I gave all of my records to a surveyor working in the area and asked him to go over my methods and conclusions and see if he concurred, which he did. The only exception to my record sharing is, that WI bid the same job as another surveyor and lost the job, I would assume they knew more about the area than I did and would not share my records without compensation. In the late 1980's Bruce Folz, Land Surveyor, and myself appeared at an Oak Park Heights Council meeting and went over the many shortcomings and problems of TPSS. The City expressed concern and we were requested to develop some approximate rough costs to straighten out the whole area. I obtained estimates from Hurd Aerial mapping for a low altitude/high resolution flight of the area to aid in the project and Mr. Folz worked up rough, approximate costs. I don't have notes. but I recall Mr. Folz came up with a rough estimate of somewhere in the area of$120,00.00 to $140,000.00+-, to replat or survey the entire "Situation Survey Area". (continued on next page) Page 4 Bruce told me that he had a later conversation with, I believe, Lyle Eckberg, City Atty., and was told to "forget about the project". I don't believe there existed at that time one possible remedy that we now have. As referred to in Mr. Hosna's letter, A Boundary Commission Plat can be authorized and prepared pursuant to Mn. Stat. 465.79. I've tried to get one these going once before in another area but as soon as the public got wind of the costs involved the political realities set in and enthusiasm for the project died quickly. Additional Beach's Addition Notes: As shown on TPSS numerous fence lines were located and noted on his drawing along the westerly and southerly lines of Beach's Add. In 1984+-I located an 18"+- diameter poured concrete fence corner base with remnants of a rotted off wood post in a hole in the center of the concrete. There were remnants of very old fencing coursing west and south of the concrete. In addition I found a 1/2" open top iron pipe 12.2'+- sly of the concrete centerline. TPSS shows a dimension of 11.5' s'ly of the fence corner to an open circle set monument. Using Re-tracement Method 2, I calculate the platted NW'ly corner of Beach's Add. to fall 1.4'+- n'ly and 1.1'+- of .l'+-of the hole in the centerline concrete fence corner. In addition, the E-W portion of the fence shown on TPSS as being 17'n'ly of TPSS sw'ly corner of Block 12, Oak Park, is, essentially on the south line of said NE 1/4 of the NW 1/4 when compared to current Co. Sec. work. The only TPSS monuments I have located on Block 5, Beach's Add., are the re-rods at the NW and NE corners. A 1/2" iron pipe, sticking up in the air over a foot in the general vicinity of the SW corner, was set based on measurements made by Mr. Dave Richert, the current fee owner and seller of Pastor Huebscher's Lots. Dave stated this pipe was set as his "best guess" as to the location of the Block corner. He said he measured s'ly and w'ly from TPSS monuments at the NW'ly and SE'ly corners of Block 5 many years ago. I believe TPSS only attempted to monument the Block corners. Other internal block survey work may have been done based the TPSS monuments or as noted above, possibly placed by private land owners from the TPSS monuments. As you know Pastor, in the late 1980's I started to survey the Bill Westphal parcel which is the same one recently surveyed by Mr. Hosna. All Bill wanted to know where his lot lines were. When the problems surfaced, Bill thought that the costs to rectify the situation were to steep. Accordingly, I refunded his retainer fee and withdrew from the project. At that time I also went over the problems in great detail with Mr. Foley. Recently, Mr. Foley was kind enough to give me a copy of the recent BDM survey of Bills lots. Mr. Foley has stated to me on several occasions that he has never had a survey done of his parcel. Assuming that is true, and I didn't survey Bill's parcel, I wonder who set the iron Mr. Hosna apparently found at the NW corner of Lot 7 of TPSS? There may be another survey somewhere we're not aware of. I have conveyed your offer to Quit Claim to the Foley's, all that part of your lots that may lie easterly of the Hosna survey line. As I tried to explain to the Foley's and to Mr. Hosna, this will be the quickest and cheapest way to remedy the problem. As an alternative, Mr. Hosna has suggested that we replat the entire Block into 5 parcels. 3 Lots for you and 2 Lots for the Foley's. A replat would require the vacation of portions of the adjoining streets and rededication of (continued on next page) Page 5 streets on the new plat to, as suggested by Mr. Honsa, TPSS limits of Block 5. The benefits to this approach are simpler Lot and Block Descriptions,ease of drainage and utility easement dedications and new plat monuments being set. The liabilities I see are the additional costs involved, in which the Foley's would reasonably be expected participate. Additional drafting for Preliminary and Final plat preparation, County plat checking fees, the fixing of any existing mortgages, if any, that may have the wrong legal thereon, recording copy plats, etc. The existing plat R/W is 50'. The 2 main concerns I now have is how the City will look at having variable width streets, that after all this re-platting is done, that are 42'+- wide on the west end of the south side of the Block and 58'+- wide on the west end of the north side. The east-west differentials will not be as bad, say 2'+- on the north side and 4'+- on the south side. The second concern is that the platted SW corner of Block 5 is also one of the external described plat corners of Beach's Add.. TPSS, as monumented, is roughly 8'+- south and 4.2'+- west of said described plat corner and is located on another parcel of land that I believe is owned by the City of Oak Park Heights. We would need to get that little rectangle from them or except it from the plat, which would leave an 8'+- X 4.2'+- notch out of the SW corner of the south parcel. Pastor, I know its tough to visualize all of this but try to bear with me. When we meet with your attorney I have rough sketch in the file that we can look at that will illustrate this area better. I still favor laying out the platted limits of the Blocks and streets, using Re-tracement Method 2, and prolonging or shortening the internal occupied boundaries within said Block 5, to intersect those Block lines, as the best way to go. Beach's Add. can be surveyed based on the plat. This approach would also leave the platted street 50' r/w widths intact. Re-platting would be, in my opinion, redundant and a waste of time and money. I just don't believe that a bad survey, that was done 46 +- years ago to aid in street and utility improvements, has caused the true, platted location of the streets and blocks to have now "migrated" over to TPSS, simply because some time has passed. TPSS would then have had the legal effect of re-platting the entire plat of Beach's Add., and the other plats shown thereon, without any re-subdivision approvals from the City or requiring review and approval of the vested rights of the Lot owners. I may be wrong, but as I understand the law, you can't get adverse possession rights in a platted street by a bad survey or by other occupation out into a platted street. I strongly suggest that we sit down with your attorney for a legal opinion on this "situation". As you know Pastor, this is a rehash of the dilemma I faced 20 some years ago. As you know, nothing got straightened out then. Lets hope we have better luck this time around. Res•ectfully Submitted, Barrett M. 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Pages: 2, including this. Mr. Johnson, I spoke with Scott Richards today and he directed me to fax you a the attached sketch. The 6 lots are located in Lower Oak Park just north and west of the old prison. I am wondering if you can tell me where the City sewer and water services are located in Peller Avenue North. If you have an'as built plan' that can be faxed, my fax No. is(651)275-9120. If needed I can also pick up a copy at City Hall if that would work better. Re ectfully submitted, r if :arrett M. ack. RLS Feb-02-07 01 : 16P Stack Land Survey651-275 9120 P . 02 ��� -/.�-S' LI BARRY STACK -66 /e' ' .5-c ---r-7- .,. REG. LAND SURVEYOR p1 0z. 9090 FAIRY FALLS RD. N0. I/ LCGll .au // nj /. STILLWATER, MN 55082 i -...,, .. ___- it �' • i[ _._... °� _.. �' * . t 41 tki 4, • c ----A...-. 67 1. ,„\ 1 7 z 1 p \--. 4 w If ft. k , \ . / 4... , I 9 t)i a J. k. 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